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If stronger morals were conferred by belief-in-God statistics, then Saudi Arabia is the most moral place on Earth.

Of course belief in God is a very nebulous metric — if I believe God to be a cosmic Egg McMuffin, or my pet lizard, for that matter, I still believe in God, after all — as is the puported trait being extrapolated from it, “morals.” Morals are whatever the hell anybody says they are, with a handful of universally agreed-upon components (don’t kill, don’t put firecrackers up a cat’s arse, etc.)

What’s more, a goodly number of Americans who attend church probably aren’t all that spiritual, may not even believe in God per se, they’re just looking for the sense of community so sorely lacking in (most) American suburbs. I guess that’s what Dreher’s addressing, but the question he poses is meaningless. It’s better to live in a secular society, period, full stop. Is Rod Dreher the Faith Police?

Daniel, I accept your premise that people claiming to be religious are not more or less moral than others.

On the other hand, I think that if people who claimed to be Christian, meant by that that they intended to live the way Jesus tought, then I think we’d have a more just society.

I think his question is actually directed not towards non churched people, but a skeptical look at whether the way many churches operate is actually beneficial for our culture. Sadly, I think the answer is no.

John M,

Not to speak for Dreher, but based on what he wrote in the post, I suspect he’d agree with you about the significance of megachurches.

Tom Dodge had a good commentary on KERA recently about the “new” churches. He said that they are deemphasizing the Beatitudes “because they are socialistic” and ignoring some old hymns because they are depressing. I read recently about a new translation of the Bible that is going to take out all of the “liberal” parts. Does that speak to moral authority of so called Christians?

“Matthew 6:1 “Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.””

One can never encounter Dreher’s abundant blog preachings at any number of practitioners he finds comparatively less righteous than he without thinking of Matthew 6:1.

On the other hand, Dreher’s own desperate historical quest for what always turns out tragically to be never quite authentic enough psychologically for him, from shopping one religion after another to sourcing his eggs from his own back yard to seeking the very most perfect food and drink he can wrap his tongue around or the most exquisite mega-stadium concert experience, certainly shows that he wants to practice what he himself essentially preaches in the link above, that a life not devoured as intensely as possible psychologically and sensately may be less worth living.

My point wasn’t that you’re a Nazi … my point was that your point is predicated on the notion that another person’s faith can be quantified. You find the quality of modern faith to be watered down, and having that opinion doesn’t make you a Nazi (if you are, then Kierkegaard and Tolstoy were, presumably, proto-Nazis).

But finding other people faith lacking is like finding other people’s sex lives lacking. Because, you know, how could you really know? Gauche as the facilities are, perhaps the congregants of megachurches are having truly transcendant experiences. Or maybe they’re daydreaming about
breaking in that new HD flat-screen with a little football later on. You don’t know.

I find it more meaningful if someone does the right thing because it’s what he choses to do, rather than because he’s fearful of some kind of Messianic repercussions later.

Being a good person – or attempting to be that – is far more important than attending church by rote because it’s what you’re supposed to do.

There is a reason Jesus’ parsing down of the 10 commandments into a basic credo of loving others as you’d love yourself transcends religious boundaries – it’s just what a good person would do.

And you can be a good person and still be an atheist or an agnostic. Why? Because everyone (well, nearly everyone) has a heart.

I think it depends on the area. Christianity thrives during war time and conflict because along with life death and resurrection, it preaches peace. Perhaps not just Christianity but all religions are strenghtend during times of crisis. In a socialy peaceful environment where basic tennets of a religion are taken for granted there seems to be a growth in excess as if religion hordes material goods and can afford to question its own necessity. Europe has had the luxury of being fairly war free since WWII as America has taken over or dominated the European military to protect Europe from outside aggression and can afford to dimiss or question religion. The Communist states were also relatively “war free” as the dictatorships ruled by fear and there was in a sense “peace.” Former Yugoslavia for example. America, within its borders has also been “war free” and our conficts have been usually inter-christian based. However, think directly after 9/11 and the rush to churches and mass in the following days. Or think of rural environments in the U.S. where the higher percentage of its population serves in the U.S. military. In Afganistan right now the Islamic faith is digging in and strenghened by having an outside military presence occupy area within its borders.
“There are no Athiest on a crashing plane” comes to mind. I’m not sure of the answer but I like the last sentence of Rod’s: “insofar as institutionalized Christianity leads people to believe that by going through the motions of a social Christianity, they have become true Christians, the experience of Christianity inoculates the individual against the real thing. On the other hand, the thought of raising my children in a place in which the Christian faith, or any religious faith, is largely alien to the community is troubling to me,” which describes Dallas’ “spirituality” in a nutshell.

It speaks volumes that your biggest issue with some christians is hypocrisy and materialism…..I would take that in a heartbeat as the worst in our society. Do you think, by and large, that the people attending mega churches are less likely to make your life worse than say someone congregating at a strip bar (not that there is anything wrong with that).
My point is not to throw stones that someone is watered down or wrong for this type or that type of christianity…..I like my chances of getting along with anyone who believes in a higher power and doesn’t have to blow me up to practice his right.
Check out the ministries that mega churches do such as dental repair and medical work in Central America,etc….good stuff. God bless Atheists and agnostics.