<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Maybe Losing That Stadium Wasn&#8217;t A Bad Thing&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2009/01/22/maybe-losing-that-stadium-wasnt-a-bad-thing/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2009/01/22/maybe-losing-that-stadium-wasnt-a-bad-thing/</link>
	<description>FrontBurner® has been called the best blog in Dallas (repeatedly), a snarky celebration of ignorance, and a daily conversation about Dallas among the editors of D Magazine.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:59:30 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: KRM</title>
		<link>http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2009/01/22/maybe-losing-that-stadium-wasnt-a-bad-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-59364</link>
		<dc:creator>KRM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/?p=18256#comment-59364</guid>
		<description>Good point, Robert. Dave, we may not have income taxes, but we have higher property taxes to compensate. Don&#039;t be fooled, every municipality gets its cut of revenue, one way or another. Handoff to Dallas up the middle, they have a huge hole, they cross the 50, 40, 30...oooops, FUMBLE!  Arlington recovers, and runs it back for a TOUCHDOWN. Arlington wins, Dallas citizens lose big.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point, Robert. Dave, we may not have income taxes, but we have higher property taxes to compensate. Don&#8217;t be fooled, every municipality gets its cut of revenue, one way or another. Handoff to Dallas up the middle, they have a huge hole, they cross the 50, 40, 30&#8230;oooops, FUMBLE!  Arlington recovers, and runs it back for a TOUCHDOWN. Arlington wins, Dallas citizens lose big.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Dobalina</title>
		<link>http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2009/01/22/maybe-losing-that-stadium-wasnt-a-bad-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-59221</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Dobalina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/?p=18256#comment-59221</guid>
		<description>Articles like this are good at analyzing the TANGIBLE economic costs and benefits of a new stadium.  However, what they cannot quantify are the intangible benefits.  In this case, even if you assume that putting the stadium in Dallas would have been a deal bad for the city financially, the intangible benefits  (image/marketing, citizen morale, overall can-do attitude, city pride) would have far outweighed the costs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Articles like this are good at analyzing the TANGIBLE economic costs and benefits of a new stadium.  However, what they cannot quantify are the intangible benefits.  In this case, even if you assume that putting the stadium in Dallas would have been a deal bad for the city financially, the intangible benefits  (image/marketing, citizen morale, overall can-do attitude, city pride) would have far outweighed the costs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James White</title>
		<link>http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2009/01/22/maybe-losing-that-stadium-wasnt-a-bad-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-59215</link>
		<dc:creator>James White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/?p=18256#comment-59215</guid>
		<description>I agree that the Cowboys were never coming to downtown Dallas. JerrysWorld required too much space and too little oversight. 

Baseball would be much better downtown. Cleveland, Denver, San Diego, have downtown baseball stadia and I&#039;ve found it nice to have the option 81 times a year to leave work, take mass transit or walk, to a baseball game. I enjoy the Stars for the same reason.

I disagree with the article&#039;s position that infrastructure is inherently a bad proposal for poor economic times. WPA anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that the Cowboys were never coming to downtown Dallas. JerrysWorld required too much space and too little oversight. </p>
<p>Baseball would be much better downtown. Cleveland, Denver, San Diego, have downtown baseball stadia and I&#8217;ve found it nice to have the option 81 times a year to leave work, take mass transit or walk, to a baseball game. I enjoy the Stars for the same reason.</p>
<p>I disagree with the article&#8217;s position that infrastructure is inherently a bad proposal for poor economic times. WPA anyone?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dallasite</title>
		<link>http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2009/01/22/maybe-losing-that-stadium-wasnt-a-bad-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-59200</link>
		<dc:creator>Dallasite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/?p=18256#comment-59200</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;&quot;For those of you quoting Reliant Stadium in Houston as the paneacea for downtown Houston, Reliant ISN’T in downtown Houston.&quot;&lt;/I&gt;

I was referring to Minute Maid Park in Downtown Houston.  It kicked off the revitalization there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;For those of you quoting Reliant Stadium in Houston as the paneacea for downtown Houston, Reliant ISN’T in downtown Houston.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I was referring to Minute Maid Park in Downtown Houston.  It kicked off the revitalization there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: adam</title>
		<link>http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2009/01/22/maybe-losing-that-stadium-wasnt-a-bad-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-59188</link>
		<dc:creator>adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 04:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/?p=18256#comment-59188</guid>
		<description>Thank you Dr. Cluck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Dr. Cluck.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brandon</title>
		<link>http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2009/01/22/maybe-losing-that-stadium-wasnt-a-bad-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-59187</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 04:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/?p=18256#comment-59187</guid>
		<description>Pittsburgh, Baltimore &amp; Philadelphia.  All three cities have lost citizens each decade since 1950.  Dallas as gained every decade in it&#039;s existence.  This is not a proper comparison.  The stadium would have thrived in Dallas because the city is thriving anyway.  I don&#039;t blame Jerry for not wanting to be in Fair Park...but we could have all pitched in together and made that place great again.  Or, he could have waited a couple more years and been a big player in the Trinity Project that is now practically a pipe dream with an amazing fiber optic model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pittsburgh, Baltimore &amp; Philadelphia.  All three cities have lost citizens each decade since 1950.  Dallas as gained every decade in it&#8217;s existence.  This is not a proper comparison.  The stadium would have thrived in Dallas because the city is thriving anyway.  I don&#8217;t blame Jerry for not wanting to be in Fair Park&#8230;but we could have all pitched in together and made that place great again.  Or, he could have waited a couple more years and been a big player in the Trinity Project that is now practically a pipe dream with an amazing fiber optic model.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brent D.</title>
		<link>http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2009/01/22/maybe-losing-that-stadium-wasnt-a-bad-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-59186</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 04:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/?p=18256#comment-59186</guid>
		<description>It would be interesting to see how many of you amateur-spit-ball-throwers have actually read the contract between JJ and the City of Arlington.

The mantra of a public-private contract is &quot;what&#039;s mine is mine, what&#039;s yours is negotiable&quot;. The public doesn&#039;t have the resources or objective to take advantage of this type of partnership.

Dallas won. 

Send your thanks to LM...in about 5 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be interesting to see how many of you amateur-spit-ball-throwers have actually read the contract between JJ and the City of Arlington.</p>
<p>The mantra of a public-private contract is &#8220;what&#8217;s mine is mine, what&#8217;s yours is negotiable&#8221;. The public doesn&#8217;t have the resources or objective to take advantage of this type of partnership.</p>
<p>Dallas won. </p>
<p>Send your thanks to LM&#8230;in about 5 years.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Informed Citizen</title>
		<link>http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2009/01/22/maybe-losing-that-stadium-wasnt-a-bad-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-59185</link>
		<dc:creator>Informed Citizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 03:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/?p=18256#comment-59185</guid>
		<description>For those of you quoting Reliant Stadium in Houston as the paneacea for downtown Houston, Reliant ISN&#039;T in downtown Houston. The Houston Rodeo barely uses Reliant Stadium -- they use Reliant CENTER which is another behemoth building next to it. The area around Reliant Stadium and Center is dismal (the Astrodome is also in that end of town). There are TWO other stadiums (stadia?) in downtown Houston: Toyota Center (basketball) and Minute Maid Field (baseball). These two stadiums bookend the Houston Convention Center and, arguably, have been part of the redevelopment in that corner of downtown Houston. But (and this will pain many of you...) the REAL catalysts of the re-emergence of that part of downtown have been a City-built convention center hotel (the Americas Hilton) AND a new urban park (Discovery Green). Without the hotel and the park, the stadiums would just be isolated grand buildings surrounded by empty parking lots.

And BTW, the whole thing of publicly-financed stadiums being a mediocre investment is not a particularly new concept -- there&#039;s plenty of research from the first batch of publicly-financed sports palaces that failed to deliver on the promise of redevelopment, many of which are now seeing the wrecking ball (i.e., Miami Arena in downtown Miami).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those of you quoting Reliant Stadium in Houston as the paneacea for downtown Houston, Reliant ISN&#8217;T in downtown Houston. The Houston Rodeo barely uses Reliant Stadium &#8212; they use Reliant CENTER which is another behemoth building next to it. The area around Reliant Stadium and Center is dismal (the Astrodome is also in that end of town). There are TWO other stadiums (stadia?) in downtown Houston: Toyota Center (basketball) and Minute Maid Field (baseball). These two stadiums bookend the Houston Convention Center and, arguably, have been part of the redevelopment in that corner of downtown Houston. But (and this will pain many of you&#8230;) the REAL catalysts of the re-emergence of that part of downtown have been a City-built convention center hotel (the Americas Hilton) AND a new urban park (Discovery Green). Without the hotel and the park, the stadiums would just be isolated grand buildings surrounded by empty parking lots.</p>
<p>And BTW, the whole thing of publicly-financed stadiums being a mediocre investment is not a particularly new concept &#8212; there&#8217;s plenty of research from the first batch of publicly-financed sports palaces that failed to deliver on the promise of redevelopment, many of which are now seeing the wrecking ball (i.e., Miami Arena in downtown Miami).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dallasite</title>
		<link>http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2009/01/22/maybe-losing-that-stadium-wasnt-a-bad-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-59179</link>
		<dc:creator>Dallasite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 02:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/?p=18256#comment-59179</guid>
		<description>Oh, and that $3 billion around the AAC is in private development money, not public.  It doesn&#039;t count the cost of the arena or the streets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and that $3 billion around the AAC is in private development money, not public.  It doesn&#8217;t count the cost of the arena or the streets.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dallasite</title>
		<link>http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2009/01/22/maybe-losing-that-stadium-wasnt-a-bad-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-59178</link>
		<dc:creator>Dallasite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 02:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/?p=18256#comment-59178</guid>
		<description>&lt;B&gt;@Dave Thomas&lt;/B&gt;:

&lt;I&gt;&quot;I’ll repeat this until people understand it: Jerry Jones NEVER intended to build that stadium in Dallas or Fair Park. We didn’t lose it. We were never really offered it. Jones made it impossible for either the city or county of Dallas to do a deal and he knew it.&quot;&lt;/I&gt;

Jerry did want that stadium in Dallas.  He spent tens of thousands of dollars on engineering to make sure the stadium would fit on the proposed tracts of land.  He worked diligently to try and get the Mayor to pay attention to him.  When she snubbed him he turned to the Dallas County government, and they snubbed him too.  He didn&#039;t even talk to other cities until it was obvious that he couldn&#039;t get it done here.  

Over $700 million in economic development is either completed or is under development in the Victory development around AAC (this number was at $1 billion before the downturn and a couple of projects were tabled).  The final number when the entire area is developed will be around $3 billion.  I believe the cost to the City of Dallas was around $210 million, and that included cleaning up the unusable brownfield site.  If not for the AAC, we would still have a vacant factory there.  This was the best pure financial investment that the City of Dallas has ever made.

When Coors field was built next to Downtown Denver, it was placed at the end of a rundown warehouse district known as lowdo (lower downtown).  That area is one of the best in Denver now, and Coors field kicked it off. 

In the mid-90s Downtown Houston was, and still is, the scariest place I&#039;d ever been (and I&#039;ve traveled to some pretty scary third world nations).  Downtown Houston is now far, far better than Downtown Dallas.

It&#039;s not just what Dallas would have gained, but look at what we&#039;ve lost, and are going to lose.  We lost the Cotton Bowl which has a $40-$70 million annual economic impact on Dallas.  We are going to lose the TX/OU game, and that has a $30 million economic impact to our city.  Those two event also provide massive tax revenues due to the inflated hotel taxes which most large cities have.

Dallas lost.  Dallas lost big time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>@Dave Thomas</b>:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;I’ll repeat this until people understand it: Jerry Jones NEVER intended to build that stadium in Dallas or Fair Park. We didn’t lose it. We were never really offered it. Jones made it impossible for either the city or county of Dallas to do a deal and he knew it.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Jerry did want that stadium in Dallas.  He spent tens of thousands of dollars on engineering to make sure the stadium would fit on the proposed tracts of land.  He worked diligently to try and get the Mayor to pay attention to him.  When she snubbed him he turned to the Dallas County government, and they snubbed him too.  He didn&#8217;t even talk to other cities until it was obvious that he couldn&#8217;t get it done here.  </p>
<p>Over $700 million in economic development is either completed or is under development in the Victory development around AAC (this number was at $1 billion before the downturn and a couple of projects were tabled).  The final number when the entire area is developed will be around $3 billion.  I believe the cost to the City of Dallas was around $210 million, and that included cleaning up the unusable brownfield site.  If not for the AAC, we would still have a vacant factory there.  This was the best pure financial investment that the City of Dallas has ever made.</p>
<p>When Coors field was built next to Downtown Denver, it was placed at the end of a rundown warehouse district known as lowdo (lower downtown).  That area is one of the best in Denver now, and Coors field kicked it off. </p>
<p>In the mid-90s Downtown Houston was, and still is, the scariest place I&#8217;d ever been (and I&#8217;ve traveled to some pretty scary third world nations).  Downtown Houston is now far, far better than Downtown Dallas.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not just what Dallas would have gained, but look at what we&#8217;ve lost, and are going to lose.  We lost the Cotton Bowl which has a $40-$70 million annual economic impact on Dallas.  We are going to lose the TX/OU game, and that has a $30 million economic impact to our city.  Those two event also provide massive tax revenues due to the inflated hotel taxes which most large cities have.</p>
<p>Dallas lost.  Dallas lost big time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Page Caching using disk (enhanced)
Database Caching 1/15 queries in 0.016 seconds using disk
Object Caching 338/345 objects using apc
Content Delivery Network via Rackspace Cloud Files: c0415030.cdn2.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com

Served from: frontburner.dmagazine.com @ 2012-02-10 05:01:28 -->
